(ThyBlackMan.com) We’ve all heard of her; she’s been crooned, immortalized and hyped since the beginning of the 1990’s as the strong, self-sufficient black woman. She’s appeared in film, literature and theater as the saving grace of the black family and the antidote to black male patriarchy. In the process, she’s become the star of African American post-modern folklore; there aren’t too many black families that don’t claim her as one of their own. She is the independent black woman, and when it comes to black men, there are no shades of grey – you either love her or you don’t!
So why are independent sistas feeling a lil hate on the part of black men in an era where we’ve supposedly advanced far enough in gender relations to respect the progress of black women? Can black men really handle this new breed of sisterhood?
The attitudes of black men regarding strong, successful black women seem to run the whole gamut – from a grudging acceptance to applause to outright rejection. Such attitudes persist even in the face of statistics that show a widening gap between how black women and men are faring in the American economy and otherwise: more black women than men hold degrees; the unemployment rate for brothers is twice that of white men; and, in a recent poll conducted by Millennium Men of Color, only 18% of black male respondents described relationships between the black sexes as “good”.
How do black men deal with a woman who’s been raised to make it without him and how do black women – the ones who really want to love and be loved – reach out to men who feel this way?
Unfortunately, the line of demarcation is usually marked by economics. It is not sobering that black men and women tend to measure one another by economic means, as opposed to spiritual standards or by more common themes such as family values, work ethic and religious commitment.
There are plenty of brothers who honor and respect a woman who is at the top financially, professionally and spiritually. Sadly, though, there are far too many brothers who struggle with this reality. It’s mainly because of how we have been socialized to see ourselves as providers. We’ve been stripped of that role in a sense, not because women insist on being breadwinners, but because, in most cases, they didn’t have a choice! Unfortunately, brothers have occupied the bottom rung of the economic ladder when it comes to jobs. We tend to be the first fired and the last hired; overall, American employers shy away from hiring black men.
As a result of this role reversal, too many brothers either suffer in silence or exhibit hostility toward their more successful counterparts. Let’s face it brothers, our psyche has taken a beating due to this peculiar American experience. And so our reactions have more to do not with how much our women make, but rather how much we aren’t making in comparison. As a result, we focus on what we don’t want – to be judged by our wallets alone and whether we are financial equals. We then miss out on what we really want: a loving relationship in which our masculine identities and contributions are valued – what we bring to the table overall.
Add to this the I-don’t-need-a-man revolt that began in the 1990’s and many brothers are feeling the blues when it comes to relationships with successful women.
What we need, brothers, is a new way of thinking. We should attempt to understand that black women, successful or not, are also entangled in a system that has yet to afford them full acceptance in the marketplace. Not only that, we must accept that – regardless of how we’ve been socialized – times have changed.
Let’s not be locked into dictates just because it’s the way we were raised. Are you really going to toss and turn tonight because a woman offered to pay for dinner? Are you less a man because she makes more money than you? My answer: absolutely not!
Independent black women are here to stay! And, with the emergence in the last four years of Michelle Obama as the quintessential successful black woman, independent sisters are and will be a force for some time.
Finally, we need as black men to realize that – politics aside – our women do indeed need us, just like we need them. There are very few black women who do not need – as Stephanie Williams once crooned – ‘the comfort of a man’. Beneath the thin veneer of financial success, professional acclaim and spiritual bliss is an insatiable need to love and be loved by a man (emphasis on man) who will come correctly.
Take heart brothers! For every Michelle, there is a Barack! We can relate to our successful sistas and give them their just desserts. In doing, so we become models for a generation of men.
Wow big deal that you women have a Career since you have a very bad Attitude Problem to go along with it Unfortunately since Most of you really think that You’re God’s gift to men but i am very sorry to Disappoint you that You’re Not at all. Do you want a Gold Medal too? I will definitely stay away from you women anyway which many of us Good men Wouldn’t want a woman like you in the first place since You’re better off Growing Old all alone with your Cats.
Strong independent women are a real turn off for me since these women will always want the Best and will Never settle for Less which is a very Excellent Reason why many of us Good men are still Single today.
Its pretty simple, if the black woman has not traded her feminine qualities for her degrees and wealth, she may potentially be in line for consideration as a mate. But if she has signed onto the white feminist movement, she gets the wall of silence from a good brotha like me. And the sad fact is, most “educated” black women qualify for the wall of silence.
I agree Andre. Independence is the antithesis of marriage. Marriage becomes co-dependent, IE the bible saying 2 shall become one flesh. If you cannot be co-dependent then your marriage either won’t last or you will be miserable while married.
On the topic of finding success in interracial relationships. As others have said in their own words; we tend to find what we seek. So if you look for a good man or woman we will find one in any culture. I would dare say those of you who found successful partnerships in other cultures did so because your approach was different. Just saying.
I don’t think independence goes well with the concept of marriage and or family. Both marriage and family by default involves co-dependence. So if you want to be independent you admit your selfishness and lack of commitment to the family or marriage. And that goes for all genders and cultures.
It is all about finding someone who is at the same level. Success wants success thus a successful woman wants a successful man. When the man lacks success and the woman find success then generally as would be expected tensions arise, and articles like this are written. A successful black woman wants to be with a successful man, so can Brothas handle Independent black women? Absolutely, assuming he is a successful man. Never will a successful woman be happy with a loser. This article only shows the difference in between the two genders, while one stockpiles in prison, the other is making things happen for themselves. No wonder there is conflict.
Why the title have to be can you “HANDLE” a black woman as if the black woman is some cage animal that needs to be handled. I personally don’t want a woman that i have to handle, i want a woman that both of us can share our life experiences with, be able to have good times together, travel, try new adventures and simple enjoy life. Now back to this handling thing, its sounds too much of a task and a headache to deal with so count me out. No i can’t handle a black woman, i can only handle a woman who knows how to be and enjoy being a woman.
No doubt @chas0x01
i’ve never met/dated a white woman, latina, or asian woman who asked me if i could ‘handle’ an independent woman.
i wonder why that is?
@ Sankofa: Bump!
@ K. R. Banner: While we may all be temporary inhabiting bodies of a particular race, we chose to experience life through these racially connected bodies for a reason. And the human race has not progressed to the point where we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya. The time may come when we can do all that: but it ain’t now.
When you look around and see the apparent dysfunction, you can’t just stick your head in the sand and live as though stranded on some island like Gilligan. This really isn’t the time for rugged individualism. We are forced by proximity to co-create the world we desire to live in. And most of our co-creators are ‘on one’ right now.
Lets try correcting some of these irregularities within ALL humanity first; lest we repeat them in the future.
@K.R. Banner…perhaps you should ask “white people” that, since they were the ones who created this artificial designation and then trained us out of our cultural and ethnic identifiers to see us as “black” and “white”. You are right that this is not good, but then as African people we are constantly bombarded by western un-civilization that we don’t know whether we’re coming or going.
@whateva and sista to sista… I am of the belief that a happy person is one who is comfortable doing the things that make them happy and would not throw their happiness in others face. Conversely an unhappy person who is deluded and bitter, because the shiny penny they seek soon loses its luster, tend to be mad at the penny, god for not sending more penny, they mad at the dollar for not being where the penny should be…they just mad. Few can be as irrational in their anger like the females, more so the knee-grow females.
I wonder why you two think you are important. What makes you think your pussy is of value. To quote a line from Jessie B Simple: “Pussy is just meat on a bone. You can suck it you can fuck it, you can leave it alone!” As both Mack and Ramses constantly say, stop hooking up with dusty dudes; learn to submit to one of us the same way you submit to the Caucasian. It’s simple. Your pussy doesn’t make you valuable, your attitude and character does. Oh! Also, stop bringing your bitterness over here, keep it over there where you claim to be most happy, talk to Bob about how these knee-grows aint shit…otherwise it seems like you are looking for attention here.
No doubt @KR Banner
@Whateva…your name says it all…lol
The reason why most Black women don’t care that black men are with White women is becuz ur too trifling to worry about. My white friends tell me all the mess they have to deal with when they get with Black guys. You guys steal their money, put them in debt, beat on them, and u cheat twice as bad with them than you would have with us. NO loss bruh. Stay right where ur at cuz we don’t want u anyway.
I often wonder why it is that so many human beings insist on defining themselves by skin colour. ” I’m BLACK!”. “I’m WHITE”, etc. Really? Since the form we manifest is merely a temporary aparatus ( here today, gone tomorrow – literally! ) does it make any sense to:
A. Consider the body as the “self”.
B. Consider one’s skin as somehow a defining factor in what we are or aren’t.
If you insist on thinking of yourself as a “Black” person, logically you’d better add in “temporarily” – ” In my present form, I’m a male human being with Black skin, but that’s only for seven or eight or nine decades. After that, I’ll be something else!”
Of course, this goes for the :”Brotherhood” / “Sisterhood” silliness too. Wanting to group according to skin colour instead of developing as unique individuals really is silly, but those hypnotized by experiencing Reality with a human form almost always fall for it. Ho hum.
I am so sorry for coming upon this site so late! This is a wonderful platform for discussion, learning, and improvement! In my opinion, the current topic spawned from the words of William Lynch about 300 years ago ( http://www.lojsociety.org/Lets_Make_A_Slave_The_Making_Of_A_Slave.pdf) It was helped along by the explosion of the drug trade and exploitation of the Black community beginning back in the late 1960s.
It is quite amazing to me how far the Black race ascended in the first 100 years following the abolishment of slavery. Fighting through severe racism, brutality, and inequality, the Black race proved through loyalty to God and devotion to family that nothing was impossible. Spearheaded by Dr. Martin L. King, the spirit of a nation was elevated and became a beacon of light for the world. I guess that was just too much for a certain segment of America to handle. Since the assassination of Dr. King the wheels of the movement came off and it appears the focus of the Black race changed from community to self. The lure of making fast money selling dope within their own communities led to the breakdown of the Black family. With the men incarcerated or dead, the Black women were left to lead the family by default. God did not intend for that to happen. HE called men to be the head and not the tail. Men were designed not only to be the physical presence (head) but the spiritual covering for the family. But the tail many Black men became as they took their eyes off the true and living God only to worship another idol. Isn’t it funny how there are more women in church today than men? I can see the tactics employed by our adversary and the devastation and havoc they have caused. As a people, we need to expand our view of this topic. Stop giving power to the tricks spoken by Willie Lynch and understand we need to return to our first love. This country was founded on Christian principles and in its growth and development God was cast aside. But it is not too late for the Black race to be the beacon of light for the world to see. We have a Black President and First Lady standing as examples of success in bussiness, in family, and in love.
To My Brother: God is calling you to assume your position as the head of your family just as Christ is the head of the Church. We must stand up as men in the reverance of God allowing Him to order our steps. We must learn to trust in HIM and lean not unto our own understanding. We must learn to trust in God and allow HIM to direct our destiny! When we do this, the respect we deserve from our women will return. Although Black women have attitude, they still want us to be in our rightful place so they can return to the position they were designed for: our partners, our lovers, our friends. RECOGNIZE THE PAIN YOU MAY HAVE CAUSED TO THE WOMEN IN YOUR LIFE. GO BACK AND GET THAT SITUATION CORRECTED SO YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD! PRAY WITHOUT CEASING!!!
To My Sisters: I hear you and feel your pain. If possible, I would apologize for all brothers for leaving you to fill shoes you were not designed to wear. Although you ladies filled them and made it work for a few generations, it is time to allow men to assume their rightful position. You can help make this transition a success by letting to of any anger, resentment, and hurt you are holding toward Black men (fathers, grandfather, uncles, brothers, husbands/lovers). See the attack of the enemy against our community. Speak life into our brothers, both young and old. Share the knowledge you have learned about this attack on our people and get involved in repairing the damage Black men and women have suffered. DON’T COMPROMISE YOUR STANDARDS OF WHAT YOU EXPECT IN A MAN! HOLD MEN ACCOUNTABLE FOR TREATING THEMSELVES WITH RESPECT SO THEY CAN TREAT YOU WITH RESPECT! STOP THINKING YOU CAN CHANGE A MAN THROUGH YOUR EARTHLY POWER. ONLY GOD HAS THAT POWER AND A MAN HAS TO COME TO GOD SEEKING THE POWER TO CHANGE. PRAY WITHOUT CEASING!!!
Sorry to hear that @Matthews may he eternally live in peace. As long as he’s in your heart his spirit will be with you. And yes it is a blessing to have come from that type of stock as well. To be honest me knowing I come from that type of stock is shy I am so demanding and won’t accept anything less and it’s also kept me alive. It’s amazing to see there are men out here who don’t demand respect. People think when you say deman it’s a negative thing. A Woman demands certain respect just by the way she dresses. I’ve never seen a Woman who has been wrapped up be disrepsected. Not because it has never happened, but because it’s a rarity. Men know when they see women dressed modestly, they are dealing with a different caliber of woman and the God in them won’t allow them to disrepsect them. Their used to be times when these women could take the the most thuggish Man and open him upo to himself to his possibilities as a Man. Good women add confidence to their Men. Don’t get me wrong you should bring that to the table as a Man but it also makes you even stronger when you feel your WOman has your back, and I don’t care what color she is. That’s science. Once again my heart goes out to you for your lost. By the way, if you don’t mind me asking, what happened to him? Appreciate your openess know that was hard. Peace
@Ramses: Thank you. I came near to being the widow of the kind of Black man you describe… he passed at the age of 37, before we could be married. I mourned him for a year, wearing his favorite color on the beads in my hair for 12 full months. He was truly an excellent man in every way, and we had the kind of interaction that you describe. I count myself privileged to have glimpsed what the life of being the wife of such a man would have been.
But then, I descend from such men. I saw that growing up. That, too, is an inestimable blessing.
@ Deeann:
And THATS why I call you sister…
@Deanne….if you are not married I need for that to be taken care of seen….I’m willing a king to come your way. This is what these females are not getting….God’s power is best represented by the unity of Man and Woman. Our people would do very well to study Egyptian culture to see how Black people did things on a supreme level in terms of the balance that was struck between the masculine principle and feminine principle. You have captured the essence of what real Men seek from their women. Submission based on a general level of respect. Men submit to Women as well, it’s just different. To me the best way to show how much of a Man you are is your ability to take counsel from your Queen. The best Men pick great women that can give them wise counsel and are strong enough to take their advice when their idea seems better. Some men are so belligerent that they will take their women down a wrong path just because they want to be considered the “Man” and using their mates idea in their mind takes away from their manhood. Silliness. Sometimes a Woman’s idea fits better. Not all the time but when it’s presented, be Man enough to use her counsel. This is what Men are saying to black women. We’re not perfect but damn there are plenty of us who are capable of being leaders. And when we present ourselves, the very same women who complain about the lack of good men run these men off feeling threatened by their notion of being a strong black woman being debunked. It’s ok to feel intimidated by your men. That’s nature. if your man doesn’t intimidate you, and i don’t mean violently, but makes your heart beat flutter, then there is a problem either with him or you. i remember when a female I was dealing with years a go said she was a lot to handle. I said “I don’t want to handle you. You handle an animal. I just want to figure out how to co-exist with you so we can be together.” This bull-headed mentality is exactly why females find themselves so unsuccessful with Men. This starts with your mothers. So-called mothers have taught their daughters how to screw men, but not how to embrace them. Therein lies the problem. So by the time she reaches adulthood, she thinks that all she has to do is a give a man some and that takes care of everything. Sadly this a prevalent thought by a lot of females. Man can’t be superman all the time. What if he loses a family member and breaks down in front of you? Can you nurture him through that? I remember when i lost both of my parents and this female I was with was so insensitive to what i went through, i couldn’t believe it. I thought this would bring us closer but I was mistaken. it was the one of the main reasons why I let her go and years later when she tried to get back with me I wouldn’t even entertain being with her again. Not out of hurt but just the fact she was incapable of tapping into her nurturing side. What Man wants to with a Woman who does not have the ability to do that? Very sad that most females can’t over stand, inner stand, this and are perplexed as to why they are single. Most dudes can shed tears around their male friends and get support more that they can with their women. All i can say step ya game up fast
I’ve thought a long, long time about this particular article since I commented the first time … then last night I was up late talking with a brotha about the differences between independence and freedom, in the context of worship practices. Essentially, it boiled down to this: those in the church who are living “independently” of God think they are doing Him a favor when they show up for four hours a week (and remember, there are 168 hours a week in total) on Sunday morning, and when they get there they are concerned about whether they are getting what they need out of the service before they decide what they choose to give of themselves and their funds. Later on I realized two things:
1. People will never treat their peers, whom they consider either their equals or their inferiors, any better than they treat whatever they consider as their god
2. Most people in the Black church are women
Houston, we may indeed have a problem.
Then the brotha and I started talking about freedom in the worship context … how is it that you meet some people in church who have so much joy, peace, compassion, and power? How it is that God seems to be showering them with the ability to be a blessing to everyone and everything around them, regardless of the particular circumstances? How is it that they are free — free from worry, free from grumbling and complaining, free to give generously of what finances they have and of themselves not only to the church in the building, but to God’s work seven days a week, wherever that might be? Answer: these people are submitting to God’s will in every aspect of their lives (not just four hours a week), and are trusting God to keep his promises of blessing. These are not automatons; they are some of the most creative and “different” people you will ever meet. It seems that the one act of giving God His due as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer — as sovereign over their lives — frees them up to be free of a lot of the drama the “independent” church folks can’t seem to get out of, free to move out of energy-sapping spiritual patterns, free to move up into new opportunities for worship and service those who think they can do it all themselves never seem to find.
And then there are some new working arrangements for me: three brothas of serious, serious pull in their fields have hired me on for project work. They are all honorable men with honorable objectives; I know that I can trust them to do well by me as I do well by them. They are also kind, patient leaders; they know I am learning the jobs as I go, and provide a lot of support AND a lot of autonomy. Each man defines the objectives; how I allocate my time and a lot of my procedures within those bounds is up to me. There is, and, if I choose to keep working with these brothas, will likely always be a great deal of freedom, learning, and reward built into the work I am doing. But one thing is for certain: there will only be one leader in each of these working relationships, and it will not be me. That is the fact I must submit to in order to receive the opportunities these brothas are providing — a small tradeoff, given the value of what I am learning and will be able to do in the future for myself and many others in exchange!
Everybody wants freedom, freedom to explore and use their many gifts and talents, freedom to be heard and valued, freedom to exercise their strength in a wide variety of spheres, freedom to love and be loved in return — but many of us have gotten off track into “independence,” which is a poor substitute, particularly since it is an illusion. No one is truly independent; no one made the oxygen they are breathing, the water that they drink, the sunlight that keeps the planet warm, or the planet itself. Everyone who has a job was given it by somebody else OR, if they created their own business, is still dependent on other people to sustain it (if there are no buyers, there will be no sellers). Everybody at some point needs a hand up… and no one will be young enough and strong enough for a lifetime to do what is necessary in this society to live alone for a lifetime. It cannot be done, neither by a man nor by a woman… all of us would therefore do well to give up on the idea that we are somehow independent of our Creator and each other.
By contrast, I have observed in both the spiritual and business realms: the way to be free to do and have one’s very best in every circumstance is to find (or be ready to found by) honorable, competent, and thus legitimate authority and get under it — it seems that protection, opportunities, resources, and reward start to flow that just don’t come to those who insist on the pretense of “independence.” Put another way: sometimes being “independent” means being able to do what you WANT independent of the protection, opportunities, resources, and reward you NEED to thrive in your life. That’s a definition of being independent that is often overlooked…
I would not even attempt to “handle” a man who believes he can live independently of his Creator — see the above definition of independence — in fact, I wouldn’t touch him with a ten-foot pole when considering a mate (or even a close friend; his delusion of “independence” might start to rub off). Therefore I can see why a good, strong brotha just wouldn’t go for a sista whose attitude is that her achievements or accomplishments have put her into a position in which she can take him or leave him at will — that she’s independent of all men, so a particular man is just an option. One does not submit to the leadership of one’s options; one will not be fully and freely blessed by someone who is merely optional. And so blessing often gets passed over for the sake of optionality, and true freedom missed for the illusion of independence …
Hey! Black people. What are yall doing? Ramese and Sistah 2 Sistah. Both of you are the personification of division within the African American community. Now if this is what yall want, keep at it and excuse me for breaking in. But tell me this, how in the world have black people came to the conclusion that love can only be found in white people. Do yall know how silly and idiotic you look when you post negativity on your own race while uplifting the oppressor’s race. How is it that you came to the conclusion that we are so bad for us and whites are so good for us? Sistah 2 Sistah, in my opinion is better for BW to be single and alone then to head over in mass numbers to men who will never understand our struggles as a people.
Ramses and all the others, you need to stop it with the long essays about how black women are so terrible and mean. The audacity of you to judge all black women by your personal experiences. Remember, YOU are what YOU attract. You are no better than the women you are writing long essays about.
To black men and black women on here who strongly believe that white people are their salvation. Please hurry up and go…just go. It’s one thing to be in a interracial relationship because you truly love that person for who they are and not because they are white or nonblack. But it is another thing to diss your own race in the face of a white person just to make them feel secure with you. When you have a biracial daughter, how is that going to make her feel?
Men like you and women like Sistah to Sistah are doing nothing to build cohesiveness within the black community. Quite frankly, I am so ashamed of black people like you because you are making good black men and good black women look so bad. Let’s not hang our dirty laundry out for all to see. Rather let us come up with solutions rather than adding to our problems.
There is hope yet, if we begin a movement for the betterment rather than the worse.
sure us black men could handle a black woman,but i prefer other races of women,much more easier to deal with ,much more pleasant,in my view better looking.i prefer to hear from other black men or a woman of another race because they can understand me alot better on this.black women need to accept black men that date outside their race,and yes if they black women want to date outside their race than so be it.i dont complain when black women are in interracial relationships,i think black women shouldnt complain when were in interracial relationships.
So many comments….
But I will just put it like this. My definition of an independent woman is simply one that can handle herself in absence of a man or other support; basically self-sufficient. Can an independent black woman be handled? Yes, but the question is whether or not an independent black woman wants to be “handled”. I am saying that being “handled” is a decision. Follow me on this…..An independent woman decides that she wants to buy her own house, pursue another degree, or get her own nails done, then she does it. The same independent woman wants a man or is approached by a decent guy, and it becomes a hustle or over-complicated issue. For example, if the actions to show independence outweighs the desire to be loved and “handled”, any guy attempting to court an independent woman has an uphill battle. My opinion….
@Mack appreciate it Family….yeah they definitely have it twisted out here…I’m about handling my business. Two things I noticed about them long time ago: one, black women aren’t mature enough to receive criticism, no matter how wrong they are. Two: Even when they know they’re wrong they fight you. The second one to me is the most heinous because so many fights and arguments could be avoided if they would just admit to their wrong in a lot of matters. We’re not bashing when they’re wrong we just want them to be mature enough to acknowledge when they are wrong, which is alot. I love business because it’s about the bottom line and the bottom line black women are not getting it done. They think they are but it’s so far from the truth. They really have no clue about their men whatsoever. I mean they are really clueless. You can tell them what you want from them and they still will be confused. Keep doing what you do….I give these young cats advice out here about the game like the OG’s did us back in the day because they have no clue what they are up against. No man on the planet is facing the battle we’re facing in this hemisphere. But as always the Nobility will rise to the occasion.
@ Ramses:
You said a mouth full homie! Couldn’t agree with you more.
I’ve been on this site for close to a year now. Have several articles on it, and I read other articles all the time. Funny thing I’ve noticed: as long as the articles are condescending towards the brothers, the sisters for the most part are either silent as the lambs or in full raucous agreement. But the minute an article or comment is made that challenges sisters to step their dating game up, all of a sudden it becomes the War of the Roses!
It doesn’t even have to be a condescending statement towards the sisters, but it will still get twisted as such.
There is a scene from the book The Last Battle from the Chronicles of Narnia series. In this scene, as the world around them is being destroyed and the possibility for a new and better world is being created right before their eyes, a band of rescued Dwarves are resistent to change. They are so distrustful of those who are there to help them that they refuse to change their selfish mindsets and attitudes to be able to enter into the new world. So they end up becoming stuck in a type of limbo, blinded by their own stubborn stance to all the good that lies before them.
And thats where many sisters find themselves at today: stubborn, blind, disloyal, stuck in limbo. Can’t distinguish between a good man and one who’s not good for them. There is none so blind as one willfully so.
Keep spitting the truth, inspite of the fact that most will deflect it with their false notions of being black Wonderwoman, using their bullet-proof ‘truth deflecting’ bracelets for protection. You can’t really help or even enlighten those types. The cold reality of life just has to bite them hard in the ass.
But there are some on here who are ready for change. I know because they hit me up privately on my blog or via email and we chop it up. These are the ones I write to and argue for. With them and the next up and coming generation of sisters about to turn 18, we have hope once again…
@Mack…We need to tease this out. I am not a racist person at all. it’s a primitive way of living life. I don’t have any reason to hate on a black woman finding love because it cuts through all that racial stuff we have allowed ourselves to be programmed with. What I am saying, and alot of other brothers are saying is that when it comes to coexisting with black women it’s a futile effort based on how they view black men. I would never tell any woman, including black women to date anyone who is weak. But, the problem is, most black women choose weak men on purpose because it allows them to control them and allows them to feel superior to them. The dudes who go to the club and run through females are not complaining about black women. It’s the ones who are looking for families and want to settle down and want something basic. The sad thing is I’m not knocking this sista who feels like she has found love with I’m assuming is a white dude. Congratulations and I mean it. However, can you honestly say to yourself that you gave black men a fair chance? Can you say you have exercised the utmost patience with those who were worthy? Cause everyman you chose was not worthy. Black women tend to write black men off based off of the weak selections they are willing to make subconsciously or consciously and then paint all of us as such. I am a strong man and in my experience I have had more black women run away from that because the “Strong Black Woman” complex doesn’t allow for a Black Man to exist in that arena because by definition, when you say strong black woman, you necessarily imply weak black man because who are you judging her against? Not white men. Not chinese men. So you are judging her against the weak position her man is in. Black men are not weak, just in a weak position and show me any men whose women who treat them in the way they do and they would be in the same position. Chinese women have a history of their men losing to caucasians but they stuck with them and look where they are as a nation and countless others as well. Sista to sista misses the point. She is so busy at throwing up in black men face her success with another group, an anomaly at best, she is not trying to figure out why her success with her own was non-existent. Men pursue women. It’s nature. When women become so grotesque (in a moral sense)they make themselves less desirable. A 25 year old female attacked a hardworking black man in cleveland and black women can’t figure out what our problem is with them? Either you are naive or you don’t care: either way it’s not beneficial to us. If you can’t see the black man’s plight then something is clearly wrong with your vision. Show me any Man on the planet in the same position as us. There is none. I asked my ex when they had a story on ABC a few years back about why black women can’t find husbands did she believe that all these professional black women in their lifetime, in her best estimation, never came a cross one black man who, just one, who was marriage material. In other words, black women, you mean to tell me that you have never met at least just one brother who you felt like would have been a good husband and father? My ex answered nah she didn’t believe these women didn’t meet at least one good brother. So i told her women who passed on these good brothers (alot of times based on money) should we feel sorry for them when they judged these brothers unfairly based on materialism. My grandmother told me my great grandfather said to her he wouldn’t buy her certain things because he didn’t know what type of man she would marry because he didn’t want her to feel entitled to getting material things all the time and judging her future husband based off of what her father used to do for her. This was sound advice. Nowadays you have females who value high heels more than they value men but w are the problem. Men are at the club because women are in the clubs with their heels on acting a feel and their used to be a time where women were not after dark because as one elder woman said to me “no respectable woman should be out after dark because the only thing she can get into is trouble.” Sista to sista for you to talk about your success, something I applaud, you give sistas the false impression that they don’t need to look in the mirror and face themselves in terms of their lack of success relating to their men. To be honest why would you get on here and comment if your stuff was so successful? Why are you commenting? Your situation, based on your comments, does not really relate unless you really want to rub black men’s face in the fact that you are probably with a white man which is really appalling. Black women’s notion of success is based on what kind of job she can get in a white man’s corporation, not off of something she creates. Remember that. You’re still dependent as long as someone else gives you a job. That’s not independence.
Go get it……It’s your time!
@ sista to sista:
Ha…ha…HA…chooBULLSH!T *sniff* sniff Please excuse me, but I’m allergic to total BS.
Your whole statement was full of glaring inconsistencies. For one: you don’t suddenly go from dating subpar black men to high quality dating outside of your race. Thats some fraganackle bull!
If you dated dusty black dudes, you’ll date dusty dudes of other races too. Because the problem isn’t the race of men: its YOU, and your low sense of self-worth. That part of your comment definitely didn’t pass the smell test.
And where are all these mythological men of other races who would ‘kill to have black women as a life partner’? I guess they hang around or work at Sam’s club because they are as rare as spotting the Jersey Devil.
The truth is: men from other races aren’t really checking for the sisters right now. The general consensus is that black women occupy the spot at the bottom of the dating spectrum. I don’t personally agree with all that, but it is the general perception. And you can’t blame this on black men either. Too many sisters have simply personified destructive attitudes that doom them to dating failure right out the gate.
I won’t take time to break down all of the inconsistencies in your comments, but you can’t run that game on brothers who know better.
Sistas please at least consider giving other men a chance because libation awaits you! When my husband first approached me I was on that ” the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice” crusade. After months of pursuing me I gave in to him and he has lived up to all his promises to me. I have a girlfriend who was in line at SAM’s earlier this year when a non black man next to her struck up a conversation with her. Then this man asked for her number to contact her at a later date which she gave up the digits. They are now married and he treats her like the queen she is. She is so happy and all her girls are happy for her and wish them a drama free life which is what she never seemed to escape with the black men she dated prior to her husband who is a confident man. When we have girls night out she says she loves her new found life she just needs to get accustomed to public display of affection which is what her husband shows and she never got from a black man.
You know the sad thing is is that what Black men require from black women is not something they can’t do. For instance black women don’t go to work demeaning white men. They don’t go to work disrespecting them. Being obnoxious to them and over the top unless they have that “special” type of relationship with them. The same thing black women refuse to do for their men they will absolutely do it for white men. That’s what makes it worse. I had a conversation with a sista months back and she said “it seems like when black men get with white women they seem to work harder.” I said “I said is it that they’re working harder or is it that they’re doing what they would naturally do given the opportunity by a Woman who respects and reveres his position as a Man?”
Then she got quiet. Silence. The same man black women complain and disrespect and disavows you take that same man and give him a different woman who completely honors and cherishes him and she will get a different result every time. And make no mistake about it black women…all other groups of people’s men do not want to get with you. This is a misconception. You might get the leftovers out of the white group, but in terms of the bigdogs, you won’t get them. Now in terms of procreation, you have white men who are having a hard time procreating with their women and they are looking for other options and some of them look towards you’ll as easy pickings to take their place because they know they have a hold over your mind in terms of colonizing it.
Outside of that, if white women were not having a hard time having children the way they are and in a lot of instances not pushing their own men to a certain degree away from them, and forcing them to go other lands like black men to look for wives, you would not be with white men the way you are now. And quite frankly, black women have always been with white men, and not under the auspices of rape (slavery). And it furthermore proves that black women as a whole have no plans on changing their ways in terms of how their men feel about them, they figure that they can go to the white man, who i have no problem with because it’s through his actions he has been able to show me who my real enemy is.
Even facing destruction black women no matter if they are corporate or on welfare refuse to change. There are more quality sistas in brazil (skin tones ranging from light to dark) who have more to offer than black women in the united states can even think about and they require less. These same women actually say they prefer us sometime over their own men. The Chinese nation has the caucasian man shaking in his boots right now and literally owns him and it’s sill for the black woman to think that the white man is thinking about her when he’s worried about his own survival in terms of white supremacy. This sista say there’s mo reason why black women should stay committed to black men. I’m trying to figure out when have they ever been committed? Especially in this particular epoch. In roots Kunta’s wife implored him to stop trying to run away. However he knew what it was like to be free.
However, she showed how weak she was because no woman with any self-respect would ask her man to stay a slave to anyone. But because her experience was just a little easier she didn’t think things were so bad. Not to mention that there were black men who were actually raped during slavery too (see movie Beloved). How could any woman of any race ask this of her Man? Just sorry. And it’s funny because the very white men who went to south america and criticized aztecs, incas, mayans and other native peoples 500 years ago are now running away from the america that they created looking for wives. Now to me that’s justice. White men, the most privileged men in north america are running away from this place because when the economy goes bad, they see how spoiled there women can be. The same women who want louis v purses, and expensive high heels, so they cheat on you with men they work with and be scandalous. Black men have a abused complex.
They keep running back to black women here, the same one who is responsible for his turmoil and that’s the clear-cut definition of insanity. This is the question that black men must ask themselves whenever they are dealing with a woman and any man in general and one thing i can say about white men they support manhood, ask yourselves this: when it comes to this woman, do i trust this woman with my seed? If things go wrong in our relationship, will she try to take my kids from me? Will she try to keep my children from having a relationship from me, hurting us both? Now that’s not an emotional question but a business one. Because family should be based on the concept of business. No black man, no matter how much he want to be with black women can honestly say he ‘trusts’ (key word) black women with his seed.
If your answer is no, you don’t trust her with your seed, then you know what decision you must make and if you still decided to deal with her, then you deserve everything she brings to you because she will not change. God cannot even get them to change. Look how much they defile the church. Women in south america see themselves in context of family. Their identity is not based off of individual (independence) like black women and white men are. That’s why they deserve one another. The black man in the twentieth century was all about organization, while his woman was thinking feminism. Brothers gotta get off this notion that you have to be with a black woman because she damn sure doesn’t think the same way about your behind. She will sell you out for a paycheck quicker than you can say harriet tubman.
Black womne have been rejecting brothers for years but now that the tables are turning, it’s so controversial? lol…you hate your race, or you don’t love your mother, all of the same tricks and deceits to keep the black man subservient to her. It’s over…game over…black women don’t have enough numbers to make any impact to stem the tide that’s against them….this chick’s son said to me months ago that based on what he’s seeing from the black chicks in high school, he was gonna have to be with white girl! He was 16 when he said this! When he was in the ninth grade, he was wondering who he was gonna take to the prom because damn near all of the chicks he was seeing were gay and his standard as a young man is better than grown men!!
The black woman has turned into the global symbol of what a whore is. Yes you have women in other groups who exhibit whore behavior don’t get me wrong, but the global symbol of it is the black woman and a friend of mine echoed this when she came back from europe a few months back. I’ve been on marriage since i was seventeen and if it wasn’t for me meeting my ex-wife who i divorced a few years back, a haitian, i would have not gotten married because i have always been able to find black women to have sex with, but ones to marry, i can count one hand those who were worthy to marry and it doesn’t go past two fingers real talk!!! i know most black women on here don’t want to hear this but when i talk to my grandmother who has been ,arried for over 40 years, she completely agrees.
In my relationships with black women i’ve been more their father than their mate. Always teaching them how to treat a man explaining to them how you don’t disrespect them etc etc etc. That’s not my job! As a grown woman, if you are not psychologically and spiritually mature to be with a man then don’t.
It’s a mother’s job to teach her daughter how to co-exist with a Man and the best way to do that is to actually marry woman and teach her from the ground level because by the time these females get in their twenties it’s over. you can’t teach them and i don’t have the patience nor desire to do it. it’s not my job…black women always want black men to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their shortcomings but when it comes to his he’s supposed to just know. He a man and men are supposed to just know. ridiculous
There is no rhyme or reason why sistas remain committed to black men instead of broadening their horizon because there are so many other men out there who love black women and would kill to have them as a life partner. I know because I have one. Sistas stop settling for less. You’ll never fix that dent in a black man’s heart. Go get your blessings!
@ Toni
You see a lot of black men with white women because of the black woman’s popping neck attitude. When a black woman is successful that attitude is a 500 times worse. Believe me most black men are NOT threatened by your success. They’re just not not going to put up with all the attitude. It’s hard enough being a black man, why would we want to come home to a bunch of attitude??? Try success without all the attitude and you probably will find a decent black man.
Woman are neglecting the home, a major reason why so many kids have dysfunctions. Think about it: you’re a woman and you’re happy about getting a job working for a white male’s corporation as if you’ve arrived. However, here’s some food for thought. More than likely, this white male is a married man. Your productivity directly ties into his profit margin. The more productive you are, the more wealth it brings him. So you work for him 20 years but you have a thirty year mortgage…let’s say he cuts your job to reduce costs and make more money. Now you have lost your job, your home, good credit, etc. And now, most importantly you lost your youth. See youth affects women more than men. A woman has a certain window in which she should use her good looks in conjunction with pleasant disposition to attract a quality man because the older she gets, the more her stock goes down. However, studies show that being in the workforce ages women negatively. So as an Independent woman you have basically sacrificed your biological, intellectual capital to make another man and his wife rich? Boy i gotta hand it to you black woman, you are a very good to your benefactor. You will sacrifice your good name (credit) and life energy to produce for him so he and his kids can go on vacations in southeast asia. So his kids can take chinese language classes so they can be fluent in chinese by the time they reach adulthood while your child can barely articulate a complete thought let alone a sentence. I’ve heard white children who could articulate themselves better than grown black men but keep being silly. Survival of the fittest is real in a certain context. People better start doing a history on people’s families because you better be careful about who you be with because you might be bringing some coons and monkeys into your family.
There is nothing worse than a black male feminist…..how can you sit here and say that Men should be comfortable with not being producers…where else in the world can you find men teaching other men to be second place in terms of their position to women but america….this country deserves to be taken over by china as the superpower based solely on the weakness of the black man…garvey and booker t were about men being put in a position to get money and you’re saying that’s old-fashion..would you say being a breadwinner is old fashioned to a caucasian..bruh you are weak and you are the same type of dude that made me scream on people in the african-american studies dept at gsu a few years back because they were espousing this same bs. What you’re failing to realize is that this imaginary throne which you think the black woman occupies is an illusion given to her by her close proximity to the caucasian. Her whole notion of success is based on her being rewarded by a caucasian in the corporate, which is totally subjective!!! it’s dudes like you who have made it hard for brothers out here like myself because you’re probably the type of dude who has that on your wallthey sold in the 90’s depicting the black man being subservient to the black woman and he having chains around his mind and she having the key to unlocking his mind….some dudes out here really need to consider sex-change! word
While there are many excellent points in the article and the commentary, I would remind all that it is about PERSPECTIVE. For the men who feel all Black women are drama–untrue and unfair. Choose better. For the men who feel all Black women are mean…shame on you. ALL women are mean when you hurt them. There are wonderful Black men and equally amazing Black women. Relationships are a challenge, no matter what color you are. We all could do a better job of practicing LOVE and RESPECT with our spouses, lovers, and significants. I guarantee you a fat checkbook is not going to keep you warm at night.
The title alone needs work. Why would any brother with his act together add drama to his life, and why would well rounded person ask?
ive never looked at it as “CAN I HANDLE”, but more of “WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO HANDLE”. As a young black man, why would i want to deal with “HANDLING” a black woman, when women of other races just simply treat me better. i cant speak for other guys on here, but in my personal experience, black women just arent worth the headache. im sure there are plenty of great black women out there, but i have met few. i mean really, how many times do you have to go to a restaurant you dont like before you decide to go to a different place to eat.
Most so-called ‘independent’ sisters are somewhere right now waiting for a check to come: whether a welfare check or a child support or alimony check, or a school rebate check. Independent is when you truly made it on your own; no help from mommie or daddy, big mamma or pop-pop.
Most brothers avoid ‘independent’ black women because by definition, the word means ‘all for self’ and ‘disloyal’. What man is willing to sign up for that?! Y’all make it sound like dudes are jealous, when in reality we’re just not falling for the banana in the tail-pipe! Relationships are a team sport; there’s no room for that selfish way of thinking.
Black women…and gay white ones…are the only 2 groups of women shouting about being independent. Little wonder why they’re also the least likely to get married to men.
As for being successful: most sisters have ok average jobs with benefits. Period. And the only reason most have these are because white folks don’t view black women as any sort of threat. Hell, they can count on some of you as being just as stringent about bringing other black folks into the company when you’re in a position to be able to do so.
The brother who was equally as qualified for the same job applied for got judged by an entirely different standard at his interview. Hence why most don’t get the job.
There are tons of qualified brothers on college campuses across this nation, graduating with degrees that white folks will never honor. A sad but plain truth.
Having an average job with benefits doesn’t necessitate breaking out the champagne bottle. Nor does it equal success. Maybe if you live in the projects. Sisters want props just for not being full blown hoodrats! Just a couple of years ago we saw just how ‘successful’ many of these ladies were, when they couldn’t keep their houses out of foreclosure. Truly ‘successful’ people don’t have this issue.
Success isn’t in your college degrees or your average job. Successfully raise your kids along with their father’s full input, without hindrance. Better yet, start fathering kids with non-dusty men who have themselves together! That alone would impress the hell outta me!
I just feel like everywhere I turn black men are with white women who will keep and accept any mediocre arguments which they put forward for underachievement. I have found that there are in fact a lot of white men who love black women and support educated black women who want to create a successful and moral life. For years we have been watching black men with white women but now the tide is turning because there are quite a few white men who are interested in black women and are not threatened by their success. I’ve often been told that white men encourage black women to aim high whereas there are a lot of black men who try to destroy their black partners or drag them down.
As a Black businesswoman who is single, I look at this article and the comments with a sad smile… There are quite a few men out there who think they will be “de-manned” if they are with a woman who makes more, and quite a few women who think they are superior if they make more than the man they are with. All foolishness: for women and men to judge the worth of the other by how much each earns is no better than how slavers judged us while we were on the auction block! We need to assess the INNER wealth of each other, the hopes, dreams, dedication, and faith of each other. Paychecks change (didn’t we learn that in 2008?); character and faith are for a lifetime! I need the perspective of my male friends and colleagues; there are things coming to fruit in my life for which I will need an even closer companion in wisdom, strength, and guidance. Maybe we talk independence until we are grown enough to recognize there are things we cannot achieve without our God-chosen mate!
Sabit,
I fully acquiesce to everything you promulgated in your column.
I can’t comment to your post. I keeps “disappearing,” for some reason, so I’m inclduing my commetns here:
I think you made very valid points. As it pertains to men who have disdain for an independent woman, a lot of it has to do with insecurity, which usually also comes across as male chauvinism. I think, on the other hand, that women should be mindful of this, and the right woman can be the very person, who helps that man to reach his highest potential, as the appropriate help mate. I also thinks it’s ridiculous, how some women feel the need to “flaunt” their independence. It’s not necessary to constantly remind your man that you don’t need him financially, for the most part. It can comes across as arrogance, to me, and may be fruit of some underlying insecurities for the women who practice this behavior. Furthermore, in my opinion, a quality man would use his woman’s financial independence, as fuel to motivate him to do better
Black men want a “best friend,” not an “independent woman.” I’m sick of the phrase and the thinking behind it. A man shouldn’t have to be able to “handle” anything except life. A woman should know how to conduct herself, and not allow her emotions to take control of her actions.
http://beyond-politics.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Are-So-Many-Black-Women-Single-Part-1
http://beyond-politics.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Are-So-Many-Black-Women-Single-Part-2
Black men see some women as being “Independent” because they don’t understand their divine ordered position as a man, which is the head. A man that KNOWS he’s the head, will never say that his woman is independent because this man would have the revelation of who and who’s he i,s and would understand by this, that he is the Head and that it is impossible for his women be independent outside of him. President Obama would never say that First Lady is “independent” he would say, that’s my partner or my wife or we work together.
Respectfully, I don’t believe in this new found phenomenon called A i”independent” Black woman. For, a Black woman, or any other color woman for that matter can never be “independent” of a man. Never! Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.The man said, “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; Gen 2:18.
Therefore, the very essence of a woman was created FOR man. Thus, even if she tried with all of her might, she cannot ward off, thwart, suppressed, depressed o even resist the very essence of who she is.. Oh.. she might be independent with regard to making more money than a man. However, she will still have to call a man to remove the 80 pound box in her garage. Yes, she might be independent as to even conceiving her own baby without sexual intercourse.. however, she will still need the man’s sperm. Women were made for man.. they can never be independent..God is the head of the Church and Man is Head of the woman..
Amen! Amen and Amen.