(ThyBlackMan.com) “If God knows all, and he knows a billion years before Billy is born that Billy is going to end up in Hell, is there anything Billy can do in life to make God wrong?
The above question is designed to point out two things – first, it points out that much of the religious doctrine that we’ve been taught is a myth that can’t stand up to logical examination; and secondly, that we can only know God’s will by what he has done, and he made birds to fly, fish to swim, and man to think.
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Irrefutable evidence of that fact is when God placed man on Earth, he placed us here as necked apes. We weren’t as strong as the elephant, as ferocious as the lion, nor could we fly above danger like the eagle. So the cards were stacked against our ultimate survival – except for one thing. God provided man with a unique tool for survival – the human mind.
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Now, as a direct result of the effective use of that resource, we have built machines that can crush any elephant, slaughter the most ferocious lion, and fly high beyond the domain of the most dedicated eagle – in fact, we’ve now flown past the eagle, beyond the clouds, and on to explore other worlds.
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That’s a powerful indicator of God’s will. It clearly demonstrates that God intended man to be a logical, thinking, being. God has done absolutely nothing to suggest that he intended to relegate mankind to be ignorant and superstitious victims, cowering in fear of the unknown, and obliged to be reliant upon “faith” in the words so-called “anointed” others to guide his existence. That’s not God’s will; that’s man’s will. Because the fact is, by having more “faith” in what man tells us about God than we do what God has actually done, is a slap in the face of God himself. That’s not faith in God, that’s faith in man.
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That’s why we live in so much anger, hatred, and turmoil; we’re living against God’s will. Our attempt to survive on faith rather than the logic and intellect that is our God-given nature is as contrary to the natural scheme of things as a bird who refuses to fly, or a fish who refuses to swim – and the chances of our ultimate survival under the current circumstances are just as slim.
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No, I don’t have a problem with the church, per se, but I do have a severe problem with blind faith. So I asked the above question regarding Billy’s ultimate fate in order to demonstrate that, for the most part, religion is not only based on superstition rather than sound logic and common sense, but it’s own dogma is self-contradictory. I also wanted to demonstrate that the only reason that many of us believe what we believe is because we choose to believe it – regardless to whether it makes sense or not. That, in turn, demonstrates why man is plagued with so many, seemingly, intractable problems.
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The problem is, instead of adhering to our nature – to be logical and independent thinkers – we insist on worshiping totem poles. And instead of being practical in addressing the issues that plague mankind, we remain fixated on meaningless dogma, superficialities, and rituals. In short, we’re being stupid, and stupidity has nothing to do with God. Our gross stupidity only serves to promote the needs of greedy, evil, and power-hungry men.
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Do I believe in God? Yes I do, but that doesn’t mean that I believe in Voodoo, talking snakes, and walking dead men. For me, God is whatever force is responsible for the existence of the universe – or to be more precise, existence itself. So, I can see my God, since, from my point of view, God, Nature, and the Universe are synonymous.
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That not only frees me from having to be reliant upon the word of “God-fearing” men, but it also gives me a leg up on atheists. Because while atheists take the position that those of us who believe in God have no evidence to show that God exists, my position is, the existence of the universe gives me more evidence to show that God does exist, than they have to show that he doesn’t.
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But the problem that I have with organized religion has nothing to do with the existence of God. My problem with religion begins and ends with the corruption of man. The greed, self-service, and machinations of man have turned what should be a spiritual experience into something that’s ugly, divisive, and malevolent – and all of that starts with the concept of blind “faith.”
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Man has a vested interest in controlling other men, so he uses the concept of faith to coerce the masses into accepting man himself as the spokesman for God. He does that by laying out written tablets, then convincing the masses that these tablets represent the “word of God.” He then goes on to convince them that God has appointed him to ensure that “God’s word” is followed to the letter, and any deviation from the word of God, or even a second’s doubt that the book – in this case, the Bible – indeed, represents the word of God, is an act heresy, which will result in the most hideous punishment known to man – and, it will endure throughout eternity. Once demagogues have gotten the masses to accept that, they’ve literally taken control of your minds. So for all intent and purpose, they become your God.
.
It is precisely because of this ploy that we often hear people using the Bible as a metaphor for God. They don’t ask, “Do you believe in God?” They ask, “Do you believe in the Bible?” Their question implies that it goes without saying that the Bible is the word of God. That’s what allows the social manipulators to come in with the Bible under their arm and set themselves up as the spokesmen for God. That’s also why so many preachers are driving around in big cars – because the people think that by making the preacher rich, they’re gaining favor with the Supreme Being. It’s the biggest scam on the face of the Earth.
.
What a great racket, this organized religion game – and the people never stop to think for a minute that the “faith” that they worship so intently, is not a faith in God at all. Their putting their faith in man, and what corrupt men are telling them about God. And since the people have been taught, literally from birth, that questioning what they’re being told by these “God-anointed” men is an assault on God himself, these charlatans, and their scam, are completely insulated from the ravages of a sudden plague of common sense, etc…
.
Irrefutable evidence of that fact is when God placed man on Earth, he placed us here as necked apes. We weren’t as strong as the elephant, as ferocious as the lion, nor could we fly above danger like the eagle. So the cards were stacked against our ultimate survival – except for one thing. God provided man with a unique tool for survival – the human mind.
.
Now, as a direct result of the effective use of that resource, we have built machines that can crush any elephant, slaughter the most ferocious lion, and fly high beyond the domain of the most dedicated eagle – in fact, we’ve now flown past the eagle, beyond the clouds, and on to explore other worlds.
.
That’s a powerful indicator of God’s will. It clearly demonstrates that God intended man to be a logical, thinking, being. God has done absolutely nothing to suggest that he intended to relegate mankind to be ignorant and superstitious victims, cowering in fear of the unknown, and obliged to be reliant upon “faith” in the words so-called “anointed” others to guide his existence. That’s not God’s will; that’s man’s will. Because the fact is, by having more “faith” in what man tells us about God than we do what God has actually done, is a slap in the face of God himself. That’s not faith in God, that’s faith in man.
.
That’s why we live in so much anger, hatred, and turmoil; we’re living against God’s will. Our attempt to survive on faith rather than the logic and intellect that is our God-given nature is as contrary to the natural scheme of things as a bird who refuses to fly, or a fish who refuses to swim – and the chances of our ultimate survival under the current circumstances are just as slim.
.
No, I don’t have a problem with the church, per se, but I do have a severe problem with blind faith. So I asked the above question regarding Billy’s ultimate fate in order to demonstrate that, for the most part, religion is not only based on superstition rather than sound logic and common sense, but it’s own dogma is self-contradictory. I also wanted to demonstrate that the only reason that many of us believe what we believe is because we choose to believe it – regardless to whether it makes sense or not. That, in turn, demonstrates why man is plagued with so many, seemingly, intractable problems.
.
The problem is, instead of adhering to our nature – to be logical and independent thinkers – we insist on worshiping totem poles. And instead of being practical in addressing the issues that plague mankind, we remain fixated on meaningless dogma, superficialities, and rituals. In short, we’re being stupid, and stupidity has nothing to do with God. Our gross stupidity only serves to promote the needs of greedy, evil, and power-hungry men.
.
Do I believe in God? Yes I do, but that doesn’t mean that I believe in Voodoo, talking snakes, and walking dead men. For me, God is whatever force is responsible for the existence of the universe – or to be more precise, existence itself. So, I can see my God, since, from my point of view, God, Nature, and the Universe are synonymous.
.
That not only frees me from having to be reliant upon the word of “God-fearing” men, but it also gives me a leg up on atheists. Because while atheists take the position that those of us who believe in God have no evidence to show that God exists, my position is, the existence of the universe gives me more evidence to show that God does exist, than they have to show that he doesn’t.
.
But the problem that I have with organized religion has nothing to do with the existence of God. My problem with religion begins and ends with the corruption of man. The greed, self-service, and machinations of man have turned what should be a spiritual experience into something that’s ugly, divisive, and malevolent – and all of that starts with the concept of blind “faith.”
.
Man has a vested interest in controlling other men, so he uses the concept of faith to coerce the masses into accepting man himself as the spokesman for God. He does that by laying out written tablets, then convincing the masses that these tablets represent the “word of God.” He then goes on to convince them that God has appointed him to ensure that “God’s word” is followed to the letter, and any deviation from the word of God, or even a second’s doubt that the book – in this case, the Bible – indeed, represents the word of God, is an act heresy, which will result in the most hideous punishment known to man – and, it will endure throughout eternity. Once demagogues have gotten the masses to accept that, they’ve literally taken control of your minds. So for all intent and purpose, they become your God.
.
It is precisely because of this ploy that we often hear people using the Bible as a metaphor for God. They don’t ask, “Do you believe in God?” They ask, “Do you believe in the Bible?” Their question implies that it goes without saying that the Bible is the word of God. That’s what allows the social manipulators to come in with the Bible under their arm and set themselves up as the spokesmen for God. That’s also why so many preachers are driving around in big cars – because the people think that by making the preacher rich, they’re gaining favor with the Supreme Being. It’s the biggest scam on the face of the Earth.
.
What a great racket, this organized religion game – and the people never stop to think for a minute that the “faith” that they worship so intently, is not a faith in God at all. Their putting their faith in man, and what corrupt men are telling them about God. And since the people have been taught, literally from birth, that questioning what they’re being told by these “God-anointed” men is an assault on God himself, these charlatans, and their scam, are completely insulated from the ravages of a sudden plague of common sense, etc…
Finish Story over at;
Staff Writer; Eric L. Wattree
More thought provoking articles feel free to visit; The Wattree Chronicle.
Interesting article, definitely has given some folks something to talk about. Although many of the responding post use quite a bit of writing and dialogue to get what I believe is there opinion across. Please just get to the point so you don’t lose the readers. Anyway I will return to this site again.
Papacool,
While I don’t agree with your religious beliefs, I do like your outlook on life – “But I feel obligated to do what I can to make a difference in someone’s life on a positive note.”
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That’s the bottom line for me. We should live our lives to create a better world – not because I think it’s going to get me into “Heaven,” but simply because it’s good to be good.
God blessed man with the one thing that is being missed in this picture, FREE WILL. While it would be God’s will that no man should perish, it then would be man would make the decision to do the things that would make perishing possible. There is a purpose to this life, but then again, life is what we make it. Afflictions were placed in this world for us to discover some level of compassion, but if one gets caught up into the hype of this life the level is often times missed. Since Heaven is the place of perfection I consider it a waste of time trying to perfect earth as we find it. When you consider the greatest miracle of all was for us to wake up and give God the glory, life itself is not so bad. Anything that man puts his hands on can be manipulated to some degree. The Bible is the blueprint to historic data and contains keys for maintaining a degree of living life to its full potential. But if it is let up to us again, we take out of it only what will justify our lifestyles, which makes us go in all the directions except the right one. When you know that men are imperfect, why go crazy pointing out their faults, without realizing that except for God’s grace, we would be in the same position. When death was approaching, even Jesus asked that the cup be removed if it were God’s will to do so. It was not, so thence the crucifixion had to go through in order for man to see the power of the resurrection. No matter what any of us think, the one thing that is certain is that we are not going to be here forever. But I feel obligated to do what I can to make a difference in someone’s life on a positive note. All things done are known to him that created us, so why bother worrying about things outside of your own control? Too blessed to be stressed and glad about it. Peace out, Papacool.
Ivy,
What evidence do you have that the Bible is “the word of God,” other than you were raised to believe it? Your belief in the Bible is merely an accident of birth. If you’d been born in Iran, our faith would be just as passionate about the Koran.
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Just take a moment and think. The people who taught us about the Bible didn’t even believe it themselves. As they were teaching us to “Love thy neighbor,” they had us tied up next to the mules. And if the “spirit” would have led a Black man to go into one of their churches and sit down next to a Whit woman, the preached would have stopped preachin’ just long enough to lynch him.
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Take a moment to sit down and think. That’s why God gave you a brain. I don’t care what the Bible says, NAKES DON’T TALK.
It is curious that you would place this article under “Christian Talk”. This POV is decidedly Un-Christian. Christian = followers of Jesus Christ, aka The Son of Man/The Son of God, whose history is told of in the Holy Bible. Also known as the book that the OP seems to not believe in?
Not sure what the point of posting this article was, but I was encouraged by another to respond (this is my first time on your site, so forgive me in advance if I misunderstood the intent here).
Just speaking on “faith” as the author addresses above: faith, as defined by the Bible – God’s Word – is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. I am not here to preach as I am not a preacher but I do have biblical faith and it is not faith in ANY man, it is faith in Jesus Christ. That faith allows me to accept his words as recorded in the Bible as the word of God. I haven’t depended on anyone to impress upon me that this word is true. God did that on His own.
It is odd to me that one would insist that his human mind can fathom the infathomable, can perceive the unperceivable, or can contain the uncontainable. If God is so great – which to me, is what it sounds like the author is admitting – then why would He allow simple man to DEFINE Him? He is the Great I Am. Who was before there was a “was”! It is ignorant and foolish for any man to go about defining the Creator of everything through the use of his own limited mind.
Sure, God gave us logic. That made us greater than animals. That doesn’t make us greater than God. So we end up with a problem: how do we Get to Know God, who has made us, when He seemingly hasn’t revealed Himself to us? As the author admits, God has revealed Himself – in His creation. And that is what the bible tells us. All creation knows about God because creation reveals Him to us. So none of us have any excuse! But that knowledge does not save us from death and hell. As a matter of fact, no knowledge saves because as we all know, our human knowledge is polluted and limited. So we have to get to a source that can direct us on how to Get to Know God.
How do we figure out which source is the correct one? Well, are our intentions pure? Are we trying to get to know God or are we trying to make ourselves more comfortable? Because there is a difference. So we seek out the sources and read about all of these gods people believe in. And we read the stories and accounts and dogmas and we try to synthesize it with our logic. What religion is based on truth/fact?
I maintain that Christianity and the Jewish religion of the Old Testament as recorded in the Holy Bible is Truth. It is Fact. All of the prophecies came true! The prophecies that are yet to come will come true! There are extra-biblical sources that confirm these biblical accounts. Not that that confirms truth, but I realize some people need something outside of the Bible in order to confirm it. You can investigate these things for yourself. But if you are not coming for Truth and Knowledge of the One True God, then you will be deceived. Seek out the truth; if you ask God to reveal the Truth to you, He will. He is faithful – anything we ask according to His will, He will give it to us.
I have more to say but I will stop this post here! 🙂
God Bless You.
TK,
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You bring up several very insightful observations. Someone else brought up the following: Why would a loving God create a flawed being and then condemn him to eternal damnation for the flaws that he purposely built into him? Hmmmmmm . . .
Marcus,
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I love intellectuals, and you’re clearly among their number, because I love people who enjoy thinking just for the sake of thinking. That is also my favorite pastime. I often sit up at night and stare out into the darkness considering esoteric issues that have absolutely nothing to do with practical reality. But I’ve long since learned to separate convoluted philosophical constructions from what is immediately practical in the real world, and that is exactly the case here.
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While as an intellectual, I spend many hours contemplating my philosophical navel, as a writer my job is just the opposite – to clear away the fog of ambiguity and convoluted philosophical constructions and get the reader to focus in on practical reality.
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One such reality is the fact that while you point out the limitations of a priori reasoning, the mere fact that you chose to comment on the issue is a direct result of a priori reasoning. After all, the only way that you knew that you were actually writing, and that once you were done you could press “Enter” – or even that there WAS a button called “Enter” – and it would post your thoughts for my consideration, was through an a priority assumption, since without such an assumption, you have absolutely no evidence that either your computer, the article that you were responding to, or myself, actually exist. Thus, in order to effectively function in the real world, a priori assumptions – or common sense – are essential.
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In fact, it is only through an a priori assumption that you can you accept that a fact arrived at through a posteriori examination can actually be accepted as a fact. Thus, other than the fact that we’re capable of a priori assumptions, we have no reason to accept the fact that anything whatsoever, outside our individual thoughts, exists. Isn’t that correct?
The better question is, if God knew millions of years before little Billy’s birth, that Billy would ultimately end up in hell, then why did God not prevent little Billy’s birth in the first place? Wouldn’t it be better if little Billy were not born at all, rather than him coming into existence only to suffer an eternity in hell?
And then another good question would be, how sincere could any godly entity be in wanting the world to believe in its existence, if it does not prove itself to exist in the first place? Truth does not come into fruition through intuition, but rather observation, the human senses, and objective measurement. God has not been observed (and apparently cannot be observed according to the Bible), cannot be detected by the human senses, and cannot be objectively measured.
Some would say that God requires that we have faith in his existence, and that this is why he chooses not to empirically reveal himself. But my response to that assertion would be, if God has to rely on petty games, and on the human imagination in order to find “true” followers (followers, mind you, that would believe anything their communities instilled in them to believe, whether it be of the Christian God, or of the Hindu gods/goddesses), then should we really call such a puppet master, “God”? Especially when these games can possibly result in everlasting pain and torment for those who did not believe?
Is it ethical that the choice of non-belief within the “finite” life span of a human being should earn the non-believer an “infinite eternity” of brutalization and anguish? And all because a person chose not to believe in God, when God did not bother to empirically present itself to modern man?
Yes, there are logical inconsistencies within religious dogma (the assumption that there is a God is one of those inconsistencies), but I think a more relevant question would be, whether or not this entity called God is ethical? Some would say that God is above ethics, and my response to that would be that such an assertion is the foundational justification to many inhumane acts that have been propagated throughout human history, and even throughout the present world. For if God believes in something, such as murdering gays and pagans, then it must be morally right and ethical… even if it isn’t.
Absolutely great incredible article! You nailed it! That’s why i can’t stand going to church anymore, the hypocrisy is too sickening. Jesus said the world will know I am real is by the love ye have for one another – today that love is gone, replaced by pimping folks out of money and entertainment. What a joke it has become.
Eric you make some fundamental errors in your reasoning. First of all LOGIC and it’s cousin REASON are processes not a destinations. There is no destination called logic. It is a organized system to produce a result based upon an input.
For example, a schizophrenic man is acting highly logical when he runs down the street to get away from the individual who is chasing him, IN HIS MIND. The external observer would look at him and say he is acting illogical, but in reality he is acting very logical based upon the context in which he is reasoning.
The antecedent to the schizo’s behavior is a belief. The belief he had went through the PROCESS of logic, something like…a man is chasing me, I don’t want to die and therefore I must run and escape. Very logical indeed. But to the outside observer he didn’t have the “belief” that the schizo had, therefore his observation of the behavior was… “That man running screaming someone is chasing him and trying to kill him, there is no one trying to kill him, therefore he is being illogical”.
When I was doing PHD coursework one of the things that struck me as I worked through some of the basics of theory development was that all theory is predicated on what is known as an A PRIORI ASSUMPTION or that which is defined as the following:
1. Proceeding from a known or assumed cause to a necessarily related effect; deductive.
2. a. Derived by or designating the process of reasoning without reference to particular facts or experience. b. Knowable without appeal to particular experience.
3. Made before or without examination; not supported by factual study.
Everything can be reduced back if you go far enough in an argument to an a priori assumption or something taken simply on a faith.
This is why faith and logic and not incompatible. Because logic is a process and faith is the foundation, an a priori assumption. An individual can be acting 100% logical based upon their fundamental belief similar to the schizophrenic yet be considered thoroughly illogical by the unbeliever. This alone does not make either of them right or wrong.
To the believer who believes God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, it is logically consistent that that God would know the ultimate outcome of all choices and all potential choices in the linearity which is known as time. Therefore it is not illogical to believe, based upon that a priori assumption, that someone’s final destination can both be chosen by the individual and predetermined by God if you believe in pre-destination.
So your question in regard to organized religion being inherently illogical is not necessarily one of the process of logic, but one of the fundamental assumptions from which the logical process proceeds. To this end you make a good argument from observation about man’s capacity to think as a self evident reflection of God if he exists. I think that is fair. However, your use of predestination to frame your argument that organized religion is illogical is flawed. You are arguing the the logic of the individuals who believe in a respective organized religion is bad logic. In truth, you would do better to work in persuading them that their fundamental faith that under girds their belief in the process of organized religion is is not appropriate.