I like the flow of conversation of committed brothers of the faith they choose, in this case, the Christian church. Brother Mack is speaking to the frustration of black males who seek to make their faith a more viable entity in our communitites. Brother Reginald is committed to making what’s available work within the Christian community as it relates to black male participation. We must work to develop brothers who will expand the body of Christian Spirituality, not just work on numbers. Cultural movements occur when poised agitatiors remind society of their responibilites. Christian agitators such as yourselves will revive a new generation of black male Christian leaders.

Glad you join the conversation. Again, I will stand on my pulpit and say – you spoke from your experience and I speak from mind. Because you haven’t seen something or experienced it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. And again I say those arguments sound as ridulous as the sista who says there ain’t no good black men just because she hasn’t found one, or the dude who claims there is no value in school simply because he flunked out.

Any brother who chooses not to search for that church I speak of, personally I’m cool with that. Jesus told His disciples if you share the word with the folks and they choose not to listen – “dust your sandals off.” I don’t want my words to convince anyone. But if we are talking about being men, well let’s be that and call it what it is. I ain’t going to church for the real reasons (in truth your post explains that). Also in truth to many dudes (not speaking of you b/c I don’t know you) who walk in unrighteous behavior (adultry, lying to sista just to keep getting the booty) all of sudden what to engage in an intellectual conversation about unrighteousness. C’mon Man.

In closing, I find it funny how you and many other brothers always revert to the T.D. Jakes, Creflo Dollars, Eddie Longs (these are the only preachers you know). There are a rack of brothers in small churches – strong in the community, making prison visits, no scandals and not pimping no women. Why don’t yall ever speak about those brothers. You know like Dr. King in a small Alabama church who decided to help his community and then the nation. Those brothers need your help, but yall ain’t checking because of a limited focus.

Good chatting with ya.

1. Yes I am a Christian. And wouldn’t have it any other way.

2. http://www.operationnotarget.org/

This is a ministry run by my father in Atlanta. I’m no longer an active part of it, but only because I moved up north for work.

To further answer your question: Not only have I acknowledged my brothers on my way to church, I also acknowledge them all throughout my week: at the barbershop, standing outside the gas station asking me to buy cigarettes for them, when I was doing inner-city street ministry, when I went out in the cold of winter and took food and blankets to those sleeping under bridges and subway overpasses, and on line in various non-christian websites and forums dedicated to issues that speak to the average urban dude.

I constantly get hit up with private emails from non-church attending guys asking me to pray them through a serious situation in their lives. All because I take the time to go into THEIR world, where THEY live, and show them a better way.

My resume speaks for itself.

I’ve been a member of the same church for the past 9 years; and once I get settled good in my new locale, I’ll be going somewhere else just as faithfully.

I ran the streets; fought and almost died in the streets; got locked up in the streets, and totally transcended the streets. I did it by the power and grace of my Lord, and I highly recommend Jesus Christ to those still lost in the streets.

What I write about in ‘Why Black Men Don’t Go to Church’ comes from countless debates with dudes from the Nation of Islam, 5 percenters, Black Israelites, and outright God-haters. These are just SOME of the reasons THEY gave for their lack of participation in church. Trust me: there were plenty more.

“Authentic men will stand up and right that which is wrong – not retreat by running for cover.”

That was a quote by you Mr. Reginald. That’s all I’ve done by daring to speak openly and honestly about this issue. I was real enough to ‘go there’ and talk about the 800lb gorilla in the room that NOBODY seems to want to notice.

I’m on a mission: to call the black church to task for being present yet conspicuously ineffective; and for being more interested in church-growth than community growth. Not sure why black Christian men would have a problem with this.

If you go to a good church or do men’s ministry, that’s wasup! Keep up the good work. But sadly brothers: those kinds of churches are NOT the norm!

The guys I tend to deal with ain’t convinced the church is even the answer anymore. And sadly, when they see the church in it’s current state, they relate it instantly to Jesus Christ. When they see crap like this http://www.gcmwatch.com/183/mcc-clerics-demonize-jesus they see reasons why they should stay far away from the church.

They look around and see a church on every corner, yet simultaneously find themselves surrounded by the worst statistics of every kind. They ask me: What good is the black church?

THEY HAVE A VALID POINT.

This isn’t their fault; it’s OURS. For too long we’ve been a sleeping giant, a wet noodle with few standards and little backbone. We tolerate anything, and stand for little. You’ll never hear of a gay muslim mosque, gay hindu temple nor any other such abomination. And if you did, it wouldn’t last. But we tolerate much worse than this on a consistent basis.

Realistically, the black church ain’t looking it’s best at the moment. Hence the need to address it.

So forgive me if I won’t stand by and bury my head in the sand. I agree with Reginald when he says: Thats not what an authentic man would do…

It’s good to be in a conversation with you once again on the subject. You’ve stated your position and I’ve stated mine so I’m done. However Giosincere brings up a very valid point. I’m not interested in what faith you claim, share with us your resume for making a change in the community.

As a Christian brother, over the last 7 years, I have donated approximately 2 months per year of my time and that dedication has been to men, I too believe when men are reinforced the family is reinforced.

In our prior conversation you say you talk to brothers in barbershops. Well Mack, I facilitate a group of more than 100 men every Monday night. I have spoken intimately with thousands of men, and many of those brothers often stop back by to see me to thank me for helping them change their paradigm. So Bruh Mack, I believe I have spoken with and to enough brother where I have a pulse on their what their believe system. So as Bruh Giosincere stated, share with us the testimonies of the brothers lives you have made a change in. Because real talk, if you don’t have a cadre of brothers who you have poor into – well I just leave it at that.

And again as stated in my article – people speak from their experience – however limited or limitless. You know like the boy who says school is stupid because he doesn’t get it or the sister who screams there is no good black men because she ain’t found one. Because your experience and the people you speak with share the same experience – does this mean you own a monopoly on the sum total of church experience. Those same brothers I spoke about at Mount Zion have adopted and spend quite a bit of time at a local Phoenix House helping brothers in their transition to be drug free.

In closing like you stated to me earlier. Love chopping it up and my offer to you remains on the table. Calvin knows how to reach me.

First thing, are you Christian Mack?
Secondly since there is a comparison to the Muslim community, (if you are Christian) do you as a Christian MAN acknowledge your young brothers when you pass them by and share the Gospel with them. I’m just saying, we’ll always hinder the work of the Holy Spirit by getting into idle conversations about who’s doing what and why aren’t they doing what others are doing. What are YOU doing with the power that within you and power made strong in your weakness through Christ who strengthens you?

Sidenote: we must keep in mind that Christians are imperfect like unbelievers. According to Romans 3:23: we have all fell short of the glory of God, Jew and Gentile alike. I’m saying that to say yea, we may have the same percentage as non/unbelievers but every body that says they’re Christian are not Christian. Going to Church on Sunday every Sunday doesn’t make one a Christian. The Christians that are disciples for God don’t have that marriage issue. In the World but not of it.

May God continue to awaken our community to return to him. Peace and Grace.

No excuses.

These men are SEEN out in the streets, on corners with bullhorns, in and out of barbershops handing out informational fliers about their services. They are encouraged to change the dynamics of the areas where they attend masjid by moving into those areas and purchasing homes and businesses. Not flee those areas for ‘greener pastures’.

These brothers target the men in their communities. They go after men and seek to fill their mosques with men. Their reasoning for this: if you get the men, the women and children will follow.

These brothers are present. And because of their presence being seen and felt, they are respected on the streets and in prison.

No matter what you think about muslims or Islam: WHATEVER THEY’RE DOING SEEMS TO BE WORKING.

Contrast this with the black christians. They too are opening up a new church it seems every week. In some urban areas there’s a church on literally every corner. These tend to be in areas that are high in crime, unemployment and poverty. If Christian men are devout, they’re devout in extremely quiet and private ways, far from the eyes of the communities in which they worship.

But interesting thing: the divorce rate among black Christians are EXACTLY the same as non-christians: 52 percent. And it’s rare if ever that you see black christian men out in the streets, on the corners with a bullhorn preaching the everlasting truth that will set men’s souls free.

Most brothers come to church having drove from another side of town, passing younger dudes on the corners selling drugs or just aimlessly hanging out. And when church is over, they’re passing the same dudes on their way back home to the suburbs, wagging their heads as they go.

When churches set up shop in the ‘hood’, members aren’t encouraged to move into the areas and buy up the neighborhood, thereby changing the economy and school system of that area. Instead they’re taught to give tithes and offerings as a way of obligating God to bless them personally; blessings that will be used to buy bigger homes in better sides of town.

I did a cursory search online for men’s conferences juxtaposed to women’s conferences. The women church conferences outweigh the men’s 4 to 1. Which indicates that christians seem more interested in winning female converts than targeting whole families.

Christians in urban areas are not respected the way Muslims are, and the same goes for prison. Christians are looked at as weak, ineffective and a tool of the man to keep the race down. How can we combat this?

I don’t site these things as excuses my brother; just as the cold, stark, bleak truth. We can’t fix a problem unless we first admit there is one to begin with. Saying black men DO go to church just tempts people to say: So what? What good does it do for the community at large when the ghettos and hoods are filled with churches?

It’s not enough in my opinion to just ‘go to church’ even though that is a good thing. Church as we know it needs a reformation! It’s time for it to break outside the confines of walls and stained glass windows and be the change agent it was designed by Christ to be. And no place is this needed more so than in our urban centers.

I apologize for the long post. This is something close to my heart. At least the conversation has started. And that’s how change begins…