Please tell me more about Jefferson wanting redistribution of wealth! I have a friend whom I debate and that is his personal hero. I would love to gather information from you!

Thanks for your time today, it has been a pleasure!

Jonathan – We are not bankrupt, not close. We still have Triple A rating. Also, I am with you on debt reduction. But that is not the same as libertarianism. Are you missing that point when I say it?

1st, there is no such thing as “the government”. We are democratic republic. We are “the government”.

2nd, you are an ideologue. That is cool but I don’t think you understand the implications of an absolute free market. You also sound young, but I don’t want to make assumptions, because you sound dogmatic like I did in my twenties. Both of these lead to narrow simplistic perspectives.

3rd, I don’t think you understand the implications of an absolute free market. That means there is no regulation. Who controls for pollution and emissions, Who controls for child labor and exploitation, who controls for monopolies, price fixing, and oligopolies.

Those are business issues.

Social issues. Who controls for discrimination, redlining, homeless children, prostitution next to schools.

In addition, wealth becomes perpetually consolidated at the top of the bracket, and the bottom of the bracket essentially becomes third world. Issues like structural unemployment destroy folks because there is no safety net, and essentially we turn into a kingdom with peasants and lords.

Dude I could go on and on. Libertarianism is a fantasy. It is a feel good illusion.

One final note, did you know Thomas Jefferson, one of the founders of this nation advocate for absolute redistribution of ALL wealth in this country at set intervals so the situations like I described above didn’t occur in this country?

Dell’s metaphor could not be more on point and his conclusion leaves nothing else to be said unless we miss the point of his conclusion.

I want to congratulate Jonathan for busting his butt to get ahead and being the first person in his bloodline to be college educated. I wish I could make a similar claim. I hope he does not think he evolved to this point without government handouts (his words). Before we condemn our president for doing nothing and not caring, we need to objectively look at what he has done and educate ourselves to how our government actually works. If you don’t know you better ask somebody. The president is not a king.

I am fully aware of the copious amounts of handouts that businesses are granted. I disagree with these strongly and so does Ron Paul. I am not sure what you were going for with that last point on handouts. I guess you assumed I am very much pro-business and all for insane tax breaks for the filthy rich. I am not. Ron Paul believes in a free market where business can rise and fall miserably at their own expense. He said the bank bailouts should have never happened. The strong would have absorbed the weak.

Just because we have flaws in the pointless spending and incentives we give business… doesn’t mean we need to continue paying out massive amounts of incentives for certain selected races… ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE 14+ TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT! We are so bankrupt that it isn’t even funny anymore. We must act now… not consider what more the government can hand out.

1st – I mentioned that I agree with you on government spending control. I am not sure if you saw that. There however is a distinction between government being fiscally responsible, and the ideological position of a libertarian around uber-limited government. Two dramatically different positions altogether. Fiscal responsibility to ensure government solvency is a pragmatic issue that all politicians face. An position on extremely limited government is an ideological approach to the way government should be run. Don’t confuse the two bro. I can be for one and not the other.

2nd – Blacks have come a long way in this country, and I think you are doing an awesome job in school and are to be commended for it. Your mother is to be commended for encouraging you. But one rule of both logic and statistics is that you can’t look at one, and argue that it is true of all. Simply because Michael Jordan was a phenomal, best of all time basketball player, doesn’t mean that you or I could do it. Black folks are awesome, and have demonstrated a historical resiliancy in the face of oppression second to none. That being said, look at both the statistical and historical inequities and tell me honestly that the playing field is level for the “average” Black versus the “Average” white. We know in this nation wealth is access and power. Blacks on average have 10x less wealth than whites. Do the math.

3rd – Your concept of handouts is flawed and misguided. I work in the economic development field and EVERYDAY ACROSS VIRTUALLY EVERY CITY businesses, and by proxy then individuals are getting handouts. This comes in the form of tax increment financing, city paid for build out, 99 year, $1 dollar land leases, cheap acquisition of spec buildings, employment tax credits etc. The purpose and theory behind it is that the use of these incentives will lead to a net positive return to the community. How is that any different then creating structured and intelligent ‘incentives and opportunities’ for a group of people that historically was intentionally left out of wealth building opportunties, and currently still suffering for it?

For example Jon, if I told you I could create a program that for every $1million dollars of tax payer money invested, I could generate $2million dollars in tax payers savings and economic develop revenue? Would you say “Bet let me get that $1million savings/profit”. The logical pragmatic person would, and I am assuming you are both.

Now what if I told you that that investment was in the development of Black communities that would lead to the reduction of Black poverty and reliance on the ‘system’ and the increase Black economic development, businesses, and entrepreneurship. Would you still say “Do it”. A logical and pragmatic individual, which I am assuming you are would say yes!

Ron Paul would say no.

“if the Voting Rights Act is not maintained, what guarantee do we have that, in the ten states that it applies to, they will not go back to excluding Blacks, and others from voting once it expires??

There is absolutely no way our right to vote will ever be revoked. We are living in the year 2011 and have many down-to-Earth people working in the various levels of legislation. Ron Paul does not seek to create a condition for such horrors of the past to surface again. With the growing technology of social networking, people are able to communicate very quickly and something like a proposal to remove the voting of blacks would be quickly flamed out of existence by people of every race.

“Also, how does Paul’s apparent opposition to a woman’s right to choose abortion square with his libertarian stance?

Ron Paul is a medical doctor who has delivered over 4,000 babies. He inherently does not believe in abortion. He does, however, realize that his opinion should not be considered. He feels the power to dictate abortion rights should be on a state level (and specifically NOT on a Federal level). So, to answer you second question, Ron Paul thinks his opinion on abortion should be irrelevant.

Who decides when the special perks for minorities ends? Do Jewish people rely on handouts from the German government to get ahead? No, they do not… and that was only 60 years ago. Assuming you are black, I say to you: We do not need handouts! We are evolved the same way other races are evolved. I busted my butt in school because my Mom told me I needed to get ahead and now I am the first person from my bloodline to have a college education.

My question to you is: When do you think we will finally get ahead? You give the race metaphor which suggests two things:

1. The races never restart.
2. The races allow the winner to buy materialistic items that are irrelevant to winning future races.

Do you feel the need to have government handouts forever? Will you never evolve? We are all humans with the same brains here.

Also – if the government continues on its current path and collapses completely, THERE WILL BE NO SOCIAL PROGRAMS AT ALL. We must act now and stop asking what all we can get from the government. Obama has done NOTHING of what he promised. He rarely visits impoverished neighborhoods anymore because he never truly cared.

Jonathan, I have no arguments about the need to control spending and reduce the Federal deficit. Absolutely none. It needs to be done in an intelligent and controlled fashion, and that means an appropriate balance of cuts, and an appropriate balances of taxes over an appropriate time.

But that is not all you get with a libertarian. I am not going to get into a complex economic argument but just a practical metaphor.

If you and I run at the same speed, and you have a head start in a race you will win everytime.

If you and I run at the same speed, and you have a head start in a race, and the winner gets 10x the prize money as the loser. Because of your headstart you will have 10x the money even though we run at the same speed.

If we run ten races in the same format you will still have 10x the amount, but that 10x prize money now gives you a much great purchase, acquisition, and capitalization capacity to do other things that I can’t do to increase your 10x wealth into potentially 100x what I have.

All of this based upon the head start you were given in a race, even though we run at the same speed.

It is not about individual equality, it is also about individual equality within the context of a system.

If the system provides you an advantage even though we both have the same speed, technically we are “equal” as individuals but inherently inequal within the system.

So if we tie this back to libertarianism, if you move to libertarianism after a system has already allocated winners and losers, you simply reinforce that position of winners and losers because now there is no systemic mechanism to reduce the inherent system inequities that caused the winners and losers in the first place.