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	Comments on: Arthur Lewin; Did God Make The World, and all that it contains?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Dr. Gary Hurd		</title>
		<link>https://thyblackman.com/2011/05/02/arthur-lewin-did-god-make-the-world-and-all-that-it-contains/comment-page-1/#comment-3066</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Gary Hurd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 21:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thyblackman.com/?p=6187#comment-3066</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[PS: Take some time to read NASA&#039;s &quot;Universe 101: The Big Bang Theory&quot;

http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_concepts.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS: Take some time to read NASA&#8217;s &#8220;Universe 101: The Big Bang Theory&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_concepts.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_concepts.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Dr. Gary Hurd		</title>
		<link>https://thyblackman.com/2011/05/02/arthur-lewin-did-god-make-the-world-and-all-that-it-contains/comment-page-1/#comment-3065</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Gary Hurd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 20:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thyblackman.com/?p=6187#comment-3065</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Two books I can recommend on theistic evolution are;

Frye, Roland Mushat (editor)
1983 “Is God a Creationist? The Religious Case Against Creation-Science” New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons

Miller, Keith B. (editor)
2003 “Perspectives on an Evolving Creation” Grand Rapids: Eerdmans Publishing Company

They are a bit heavy theologically, but mostly readable. 

Regarding the &quot;fine tuning,&quot; or &quot;strong anthropic principle,&quot; here is one in favor and one opposed;

McGrath, Alister E.
2009 &quot;A Fine-Tuned Universe&quot; Louisville: Westminster John Knox Press

Susskind, Leonard 
2005 &quot;The Cosmic Landscape: String Theory and the Illusion of Intelligent Design&quot;  New York: Little and Brown Publishers

Obviously McGrath is in favor of the idea that the &quot;fact&quot; the universe is &quot;built&quot; for us humans &quot;proves&quot; there must be a god. Actually he sidesteps the arguments made by Susskind (in fact he does not even mention Susskind, or the equally strong counter arguments of of my colleague Victor J. Stenger (2004, &quot;Is the Universe Fine-Tuned for Us?&quot; in &quot;Why Intelligent Design Fails,&quot; 172-84). The best short refutation of the fine tuning case I have seen was by the science fiction author, Douglas Adams.  In late 2000, he gave a talk at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He compared us to a mud puddle that looks around and says, &quot;What a nice hole in the ground - it&#039;s made just for me! Look at how nicely it&#039;s indentations fit my beautiful curves, and the depth and the radius are just right...&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two books I can recommend on theistic evolution are;</p>
<p>Frye, Roland Mushat (editor)<br />
1983 “Is God a Creationist? The Religious Case Against Creation-Science” New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons</p>
<p>Miller, Keith B. (editor)<br />
2003 “Perspectives on an Evolving Creation” Grand Rapids: Eerdmans Publishing Company</p>
<p>They are a bit heavy theologically, but mostly readable. </p>
<p>Regarding the &#8220;fine tuning,&#8221; or &#8220;strong anthropic principle,&#8221; here is one in favor and one opposed;</p>
<p>McGrath, Alister E.<br />
2009 &#8220;A Fine-Tuned Universe&#8221; Louisville: Westminster John Knox Press</p>
<p>Susskind, Leonard<br />
2005 &#8220;The Cosmic Landscape: String Theory and the Illusion of Intelligent Design&#8221;  New York: Little and Brown Publishers</p>
<p>Obviously McGrath is in favor of the idea that the &#8220;fact&#8221; the universe is &#8220;built&#8221; for us humans &#8220;proves&#8221; there must be a god. Actually he sidesteps the arguments made by Susskind (in fact he does not even mention Susskind, or the equally strong counter arguments of of my colleague Victor J. Stenger (2004, &#8220;Is the Universe Fine-Tuned for Us?&#8221; in &#8220;Why Intelligent Design Fails,&#8221; 172-84). The best short refutation of the fine tuning case I have seen was by the science fiction author, Douglas Adams.  In late 2000, he gave a talk at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He compared us to a mud puddle that looks around and says, &#8220;What a nice hole in the ground &#8211; it&#8217;s made just for me! Look at how nicely it&#8217;s indentations fit my beautiful curves, and the depth and the radius are just right&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dr. Arthur Lewin		</title>
		<link>https://thyblackman.com/2011/05/02/arthur-lewin-did-god-make-the-world-and-all-that-it-contains/comment-page-1/#comment-3057</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Arthur Lewin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 17:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thyblackman.com/?p=6187#comment-3057</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you, I stand corrected &quot;Cartesian dualism&quot; refers to Descartes notion of the separation of mind and body and not to his idea that God created the world and left it alone after that. I would ask the editor to please remove that reference in the piece. However, I did not advocate the teaching of intelligent design, creationism or evolution. I was only comparing theories. If theistic design is a better label than intelligent design for what I am referring to than let&#039;s use that. And I am happy to learn that there is no particular scientific objection to that concept]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, I stand corrected &#8220;Cartesian dualism&#8221; refers to Descartes notion of the separation of mind and body and not to his idea that God created the world and left it alone after that. I would ask the editor to please remove that reference in the piece. However, I did not advocate the teaching of intelligent design, creationism or evolution. I was only comparing theories. If theistic design is a better label than intelligent design for what I am referring to than let&#8217;s use that. And I am happy to learn that there is no particular scientific objection to that concept</p>
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		<title>
		By: Elf M. Sternberg		</title>
		<link>https://thyblackman.com/2011/05/02/arthur-lewin-did-god-make-the-world-and-all-that-it-contains/comment-page-1/#comment-3056</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elf M. Sternberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 16:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thyblackman.com/?p=6187#comment-3056</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Arthur Lewin wrote: &quot;And so could that not have been the Time of God? Where did the initial lump of matter come from? Could not God have created it?&quot;

What&#039;s wrong with &quot;I don&#039;t know?&quot;  This seems to be the crux of the matter; some people need a God of some kind and so, when presented with a gap in our knowledge, fill it with God.  &quot;We don&#039;t know&quot; why such-and-such happens, therefore God Did It, seems to me to be a very weak place to rest one&#039;s faith.  If science closes that gap, wherefore then do you have room for God? 

If you rest your faith on God in places where empiricism has not yet provided an answer, then when empiricism does provide an answer God is diminished.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arthur Lewin wrote: &#8220;And so could that not have been the Time of God? Where did the initial lump of matter come from? Could not God have created it?&#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s wrong with &#8220;I don&#8217;t know?&#8221;  This seems to be the crux of the matter; some people need a God of some kind and so, when presented with a gap in our knowledge, fill it with God.  &#8220;We don&#8217;t know&#8221; why such-and-such happens, therefore God Did It, seems to me to be a very weak place to rest one&#8217;s faith.  If science closes that gap, wherefore then do you have room for God? </p>
<p>If you rest your faith on God in places where empiricism has not yet provided an answer, then when empiricism does provide an answer God is diminished.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dr. Gary Hurd		</title>
		<link>https://thyblackman.com/2011/05/02/arthur-lewin-did-god-make-the-world-and-all-that-it-contains/comment-page-1/#comment-3055</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Gary Hurd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 15:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thyblackman.com/?p=6187#comment-3055</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I want make a last observation to Dr. Lewin regarding his concluding statement, &quot;And so we see that, ultimately, Evolution and Intelligent Design do not really contradict.&quot;

They do most certainly conflict, if Dr. Lewin is using &quot;intelligent design&quot; in the same sense as its proponents, and in the sense it has in the various recent or impending legal cases (see Kitzmiller v Dover, or example). The scientific failure of Intelligent Design creationism has been explored by many scientists and philosophers. For two recommendations, see;

Mark Perakh
2003 &quot;Unintelligent Design&quot; New York: Prometheus Press

Matt Young, Taner Edis (Editors), 
2004  &quot;Why Intelligent Design Fails: A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism&quot; Rutgers University Press 

I was one of the contributers to the latter book.

The suggestion made by Dr. Lewin that following the &quot;big bang,&quot; life emerged and evolved according to natural laws is roughly the same as &quot;theistic evolution.&quot; I don&#039;t find it personally persuasive, but there is no particular scientific objection to this. It is often called the &quot;strong anthropic principle&quot; by cosmologists. It is worth noting that it is rejected by most ID proponents at the Discovery Institute, and is strongly opposed by the common Young Earth creationists.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want make a last observation to Dr. Lewin regarding his concluding statement, &#8220;And so we see that, ultimately, Evolution and Intelligent Design do not really contradict.&#8221;</p>
<p>They do most certainly conflict, if Dr. Lewin is using &#8220;intelligent design&#8221; in the same sense as its proponents, and in the sense it has in the various recent or impending legal cases (see Kitzmiller v Dover, or example). The scientific failure of Intelligent Design creationism has been explored by many scientists and philosophers. For two recommendations, see;</p>
<p>Mark Perakh<br />
2003 &#8220;Unintelligent Design&#8221; New York: Prometheus Press</p>
<p>Matt Young, Taner Edis (Editors),<br />
2004  &#8220;Why Intelligent Design Fails: A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism&#8221; Rutgers University Press </p>
<p>I was one of the contributers to the latter book.</p>
<p>The suggestion made by Dr. Lewin that following the &#8220;big bang,&#8221; life emerged and evolved according to natural laws is roughly the same as &#8220;theistic evolution.&#8221; I don&#8217;t find it personally persuasive, but there is no particular scientific objection to this. It is often called the &#8220;strong anthropic principle&#8221; by cosmologists. It is worth noting that it is rejected by most ID proponents at the Discovery Institute, and is strongly opposed by the common Young Earth creationists.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dr. Gary Hurd		</title>
		<link>https://thyblackman.com/2011/05/02/arthur-lewin-did-god-make-the-world-and-all-that-it-contains/comment-page-1/#comment-3054</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Gary Hurd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 15:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thyblackman.com/?p=6187#comment-3054</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Lewin, in the day of Google, and Wikipedia your multiple errors are just not acceptable. First, Charles Darwin hardly addressed the origin of life at all, and at least in his published works accepted the possibility of a creator. Second, evolutionary biology has advanced a great deal in the last 150 years and Darwin’s books are of more historical than scientific interest. 

You also suggest that creationism be taught merely because it is popular. Darwin wrote against slavery, and about the biological unity of mankind when most here insisted that slave ownership was a “god given right” of the White man, and even that the African slaves were soulless sub-humans. Facts are not altered by popularity, and at least in the sciences we try to stick to facts to build our theories.

As for some additional facts, John Scopes was never “exonerated.” The Tennessee Supreme Court found the Butler Act against teaching evolution constitutional. The court  set aside the conviction because the Judge made a technical error by fining Scopes $100, when he was not permitted to go above $50, and the lower court decided not to retry the case. Cartesian Duality is the notion that there is a non-material mind that is detached from the physical brain. Given the advances of neurochemistry, and application of new technologies such as functional MRI, we know that this was a false idea. (And it had little to do with any “science versus religious” conflicts). 

Godel’s ideas about incompleteness apply to formal logic systems such as mathematics without any material constraints. The sciences rejected by creationists, especially biology, and geology, are already constrained by the physical realities we study, and so Godel’s theorem has no application. You had best try reading the original.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Lewin, in the day of Google, and Wikipedia your multiple errors are just not acceptable. First, Charles Darwin hardly addressed the origin of life at all, and at least in his published works accepted the possibility of a creator. Second, evolutionary biology has advanced a great deal in the last 150 years and Darwin’s books are of more historical than scientific interest. </p>
<p>You also suggest that creationism be taught merely because it is popular. Darwin wrote against slavery, and about the biological unity of mankind when most here insisted that slave ownership was a “god given right” of the White man, and even that the African slaves were soulless sub-humans. Facts are not altered by popularity, and at least in the sciences we try to stick to facts to build our theories.</p>
<p>As for some additional facts, John Scopes was never “exonerated.” The Tennessee Supreme Court found the Butler Act against teaching evolution constitutional. The court  set aside the conviction because the Judge made a technical error by fining Scopes $100, when he was not permitted to go above $50, and the lower court decided not to retry the case. Cartesian Duality is the notion that there is a non-material mind that is detached from the physical brain. Given the advances of neurochemistry, and application of new technologies such as functional MRI, we know that this was a false idea. (And it had little to do with any “science versus religious” conflicts). </p>
<p>Godel’s ideas about incompleteness apply to formal logic systems such as mathematics without any material constraints. The sciences rejected by creationists, especially biology, and geology, are already constrained by the physical realities we study, and so Godel’s theorem has no application. You had best try reading the original.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tantalus Prime		</title>
		<link>https://thyblackman.com/2011/05/02/arthur-lewin-did-god-make-the-world-and-all-that-it-contains/comment-page-1/#comment-3053</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tantalus Prime]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 14:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thyblackman.com/?p=6187#comment-3053</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;In fact, Rene Descartes, one of the Fathers of Western Science, long ago declared that God created the world and then left it entirely alone. And this declaration of Descartes, referred to as “Cartesian Dualism” ...&quot;

Cartesian Dualism refers to Descartes assertion that the mind and the body are different substances. So far as I know it has nothing to do with Descartes beliefs about creation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In fact, Rene Descartes, one of the Fathers of Western Science, long ago declared that God created the world and then left it entirely alone. And this declaration of Descartes, referred to as “Cartesian Dualism” &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Cartesian Dualism refers to Descartes assertion that the mind and the body are different substances. So far as I know it has nothing to do with Descartes beliefs about creation.</p>
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